Ok Harley, You Once Again Have My Attention

"Pickup_man" (zekeh) 10/28/2020 at 12:40 • Filed to: None

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I have some mixed feelings about Harley, but generally I’m a fan of their bikes, and the styling , but not so much the culture/ perceived culture that comes with them. I was really excited by the previous CEO’s More Roads to Harley direction which pumped out a lot of cool and modern bike concepts, both gas and electric powered, so when the new CEO came in and implemented his stick-to-what-we’re-good-at plan, I kinda lost hope and interest in the company. This bike though, this is renewing a bit of that hope. This is beautiful and a great way for Harley to get into the electric game while still pushing their cornerstone heritage. I’m sure it’s going to be wildly expensive as most e- bikes are, plus the Harley premium, but it’s still nice to see Harley pushing something that isn’t a heavyweight touring bike with an anemic air cooled V-twin.

Jim Spanfeller > Pickup_man 10/28/2020 at 12:45

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That is the most hipster bicycle I’ve ever seen. I can’t take it seriously.

CobraJoe > Pickup_man 10/28/2020 at 12:45

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As long as it’s not just an import bike with white tires and a leather saddle, it could be interesting. Then it just needs to be built well and not insanely expensive.

Harley does have a long history of outsourcing their low end offerings, and then still managing to half-ass the engineering and QC.

CobraJoe > Jim Spanfeller 10/28/2020 at 12:52

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Here’s a more hipster E-bike:

Pickup_man > CobraJoe 10/28/2020 at 12:52

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Sounds like they designed this one in house after their first bike, hence Serial 1. You know i t’s going to be insanely expensive though, E-bikes are already crazy expensive, this looks very nice fit and finish wise, plus you’ve got the Harley tax. I’m not expecting it to be a game change, it’s just nice to see that Harley is at least thinking about something other than their usual.

Jim Spanfeller > CobraJoe 10/28/2020 at 12:53

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I doubted it was possible for you to find a genuinely more hipster e-bike. I was wrong. That is some truly next-level stuff right there...

vondon302 > Pickup_man 10/28/2020 at 12:53

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I like it but I got a feeling it’ll be overpriced.

krustywantout > Pickup_man 10/28/2020 at 12:54

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I’ve ridden Harley s and have friends that own them and all I can say is that there are a few Harleys that I can see myself buying. (maybe their new adventure bike or anything soft tail) . Most of their bikes don’t do anything better than other cruisers and in some ways, like vibration and horrible transmission, perform worse . As far as this bicycle:

-it looks nice but how does this perform better than the competition?

-are they going to sell it in motorcycle showrooms or a traditional bicycle shop?

If they sell it at their own showrooms then they are in trouble because I would never go to a Harley showroom but I do go to my local bike shop.

Pickup_man > Jim Spanfeller 10/28/2020 at 12:55

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How can it be since it’s not some trashed road bike from the 70's? /S

Yeah I can kinda see that, t he styling is based on Harley’s first bike, hence Serial 1. I think it’s cool and I refuse to let hipsters ruin this for me.

Pickup_man > vondon302 10/28/2020 at 12:56

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Guaranteed, still looks cool though. 

benjrblant > Pickup_man 10/28/2020 at 12:59

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i dunno, i think it’s hideous.

Pickup_man > krustywantout 10/28/2020 at 13:00

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-it looks nice but how does this perform better than the competition?

It probably doesn’t , Harley sells on styling and heritage, which is fine honestly. My Yamaha Warrior does everything better than your average Harley, yet I still lust after a Dyna Wide Glide. Performance doesn’t have to be everything.

I can’t imagine that they wouldn’t at least have one in their showroom, but I figure they’ll try and sell outside of their traditional dealer ships as well.

Ermahgerd! > Jim Spanfeller 10/28/2020 at 13:01

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Oh we can get way more hipster if we want too...

Pickup_man > benjrblant 10/28/2020 at 13:01

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different strokes for different folks I guess

Michael > Pickup_man 10/28/2020 at 13:02

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My dad already asked me if we make something to compete with this.

Note: I work for the “other” domestic motorcycle company.

No dad, no we don’t

Jim Spanfeller > Pickup_man 10/28/2020 at 13:06

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I think this is the kind of bicycle you can only ride to coffee shops... I have no problem with you buying one of them, but you must accept the fact that ownership of one of these means you are becoming a hipster. You might as well embrace it.

mhr555 > CobraJoe 10/28/2020 at 13:08

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I’ve got an HD insider so I’m trying to find this out because I thought the same thing. 

Jim Spanfeller > Ermahgerd! 10/28/2020 at 13:08

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Okay, now that but recumbent.

This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: > Pickup_man 10/28/2020 at 13:13

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Specs or it didn't happen.

benjrblant > Pickup_man 10/28/2020 at 13:15

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sorry if it came off wrong, but no offense intended.

flatisflat > Pickup_man 10/28/2020 at 13:15

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I feel like Harley has been very Cadillac as of the last number of years: “Is this what you want?!? Please buy us again!”

Not aided by their drastic changes in company programming per radical shifts in CEO mentalities, but alas, the point still stands.

Harley, like so many others, was interesting once upon a time for forging a product that spoke to the nature of a wide-ranging demographic at the heart of a society. All of their recent attempts at responding to market trends and changing demographics is just that. Responding. Following. There’s no more a sense of their having created a new product that speaks to a wide-ranging demographic at the heart of this society. They’re just jumping in line.

For their sake, I hope they somehow can find that magic approach again.

Pickup_man > Jim Spanfeller 10/28/2020 at 13:19

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If only I liked coffee.....

I’m also probably never going to buy one so I guess I’m safe from hipsterdom for now. 

Pickup_man > flatisflat 10/28/2020 at 13:20

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%100 agree. 

kanadanmajava1 > Pickup_man 10/28/2020 at 13:23

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I really dislike bicycle frames that have the top tube   sloped downwards at the rear. Jeremy Clarkson once insulted a certain car model desig ned using German-US collaboration by saying that it looks like a pooping dog. I have been saying the same about this type of bicycle frames. And p oo ping is not a cool image. But the pooping dog frames  are annoyingly popular.

The nice looking bikes have a horizontal top tube. But the really fast looking bikes have a top tube sloped downwards at the front.

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > Pickup_man 10/28/2020 at 13:23

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welp..it looks nice

but its a harley...so they’ll probably want 15 grand for it :p

Pickup_man > Michael 10/28/2020 at 13:24

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You do huh? I’ve perused their job openings a few time, would love to work for them, or even the parent company, but can’t bring myself to move to Minnesota and away from my family and the area I’ve spent my whole life in, even if it is only 5 or so hours away. 

Pickup_man > This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: 10/28/2020 at 13:24

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On what, this? Not released yet. 

Pickup_man > benjrblant 10/28/2020 at 13:25

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None taken , we like what we like, everyone has different tastes. 

Pickup_man > kanadanmajava1 10/28/2020 at 13:27

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If not for the really high seat post I think it gives off a hardtail motorcycle kind of look, but I definitely see where you’re coming from. 

Pickup_man > farscythe - makin da cawfee! 10/28/2020 at 13:28

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More than likely

Michael > Pickup_man 10/28/2020 at 13:33

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I do actually work for the parent company. First assignment was on-road, but supporting off road and snow now too.

It’s a pretty cool company, good benefits if you’re salaried.

We moved up from Atlanta away from family, got pregnant nearly immediately and had the kid 2 weeks before the pandemic shut the world down, so it's been interesting

CobraJoe > Pickup_man 10/28/2020 at 13:44

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I think the only problem is, they kind of do need a game changer if they want to remain as a large scale company. Slimming down to the niche that you are known for is great for keeping the company alive and producing the stuff you want to produce, but it’s not great for production numbers and overall profit.

Also, looking back at HD’s past, branching out and trying new things is a pretty common strategy, but also seems to produce a few dead ends.

Pickup_man > Michael 10/28/2020 at 13:47

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I’ll have to keep an eye on the openings, see if you can convince someone to open up something on the SD side of the border lol. I’d be really good for testing everything, and I’m an actual engineer. 

Jim Spanfeller > Pickup_man 10/28/2020 at 13:47

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Eh, just get a Frappuccino, they barely even taste like coffee ;) And coffee i s probably too mainstream, anyway...

Pickup_man > CobraJoe 10/28/2020 at 13:50

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They really do need a game changer, but their strategy seems to be showing up more than fashionably late to the party and tossing their hands in the air when it doesn’t sell. I can’t blame them for not trying new things, because they have, but nothing seems to stick. 

This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: > Pickup_man 10/28/2020 at 13:53

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The market is saturated with overpriced under spec’d e-bikes. Harley had better bring their A game.  

J udging by the fact this appears to be fully rigid and likely has a tiny integrated b attery pack, they haven’t brought their A game. Add the Harley tax and it’s likely to be a hard pass from me.

Pickup_man > This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: 10/28/2020 at 14:00

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I don’t think anyone is going to look at this as serious competition to most e-bikes out there currently, but it sure does look pretty.

I’m treating it as more of a sign that Harley isn’t giving up on the electric market, they’re not going about it the way I think they should, but at least they’re trying. 

TheBlightOfGrey > Pickup_man 10/28/2020 at 14:14

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Gates belt- drive isn’t cheap, but it’s a nice nod towards Harley’s belt-drive bigger brothers.

Michael > Pickup_man 10/28/2020 at 14:23

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How far are you from spirit lake IA?

This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: > Pickup_man 10/28/2020 at 14:29

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I’m glad they’re trying, but they need to try harder imo.

The mutually agreed first step of building a diy ebike is to procure a quality full suspension frameset, for both comfort and safety. The second most important part is the battery, followed by the motor. Unless this is meant to be a low speed boardwalk cruiser for geriatrics who don’t i ntend to use the bike as actual transportation, it’s not anything I’d get too excited about.

If my hunch is correct it’ll be a mid drive with an integrated gearbox in the frame. This part would be neat, if not difficult and expensive to maintain. It also runs the risk of being impossible to fix if the bike doesn’t take off and parts availability later becomes an issue (Like the Suntour Vboxx). Then there is the question of power. 250w would be gutless. Closer to 1kw might get it moving, but then we’re back to the small battery and rigid platform issues.

For what I assume they’ll be asking I can all but guarantee better bikes can be had for less money. Of course they won’t have the HD sticker, and for some that may be the only thing that really matters in all of this.

As for looks, it’s sharp, but swap out the tires and brown bits to black and it would easily be lost in a sea of cheap Chinese BSO’s. Nothing really stands out about it to me.

CobraJoe > Pickup_man 10/28/2020 at 15:08

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They have been somewhat successful in several of those offshoo ts, but the either let the products wither or are too afraid to implement them fully in their culture.

But here’s a suggestion for an oddball game changer type of vehicle: A tadpole trike.

Polaris has gotten a ton of attention for the slingshot, the Morgan 3 wheeler is a very eye catching British V-twin powered vehicle, why not offer the American version of the Morgan?

It might attract people who are afraid of motorcycles, it will definitely get plenty of free press, and the price can be double the Slingshot if it i s styled and built like a premium product . Maybe even offer a Livewire powered option, and you’re gaining the EV crowd’s attention too.

Well, that’s the kind of move I’d like to see HD make. Make waves, even if you’re sticking to what you know best.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Pickup_man 10/28/2020 at 15:20

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I could only see this being successful being sold at a Harley dealer, or somewhere that isn’t an LBS. At least in my area, anyone that would be seen on, much less own, an HD product are about polar  opposite of the people found in a local bike shop and riding community as is possible.

Pickup_man > Michael 10/28/2020 at 15:22

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Hour and a half, give or take. 

Pickup_man > CobraJoe 10/28/2020 at 15:27

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So like a Vanderhall, but a Harley? 

Pickup_man > TheBlightOfGrey 10/28/2020 at 15:29

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A throwback to the original leather belt driven bikes was more my thought, but it also fits in with their current belt drive bikes. 

CobraJoe > Pickup_man 10/28/2020 at 16:27

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Exactly.

Tadpole trikes are pretty rare in the market, especially from a major manufacturer . HD is pretty well situated to make one, they have large torquy engines, a starter motor based reverse gear, and heavy duty components suitable for a 3 wheeler.

There’s still a lot of engineering needed, but it all sounds feasible.  

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > Pickup_man 10/28/2020 at 22:54

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Mondraker called Harley to congratulate them on being late to the party yet again...

Frankly, this H-D thing is a half arsed effort. Even Trek have done a better job of it with some of their product. E-bikes deserve a shake up because they are almost all entirely hard to aesthetically enjoy while some are outright hideous. H-D have merely added to that canon.

Plus, unless they are bringing millions and millions of dollars into e-bikes in terms of motor and gearbox development (highly unlikely) this'll be a Shimano or Bosch motor inside a bespoke box - hardly a Harley Davidson. And that's without considering 'that' frame...and who actually made it.

Pickup_man > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media 10/29/2020 at 09:02

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I don’t think anyone thinks Harley is creating the E-bike segment, but for once they’re at least getting into it fairly early on, instead of 5 years after the trend is already old news (cough cough, ADV bikes). E-bikes have been around for a while but they’re still a growing segment and a lot of manufactures are still jumping in. 

I’m also not surprised that’s it’s more form over function, that’s kinda what Harley does. I think it looks great but obviously don’t expect it to compete favorably with utilitarian e-bikes.

They say that the bike was designed in house, using their first motorcycle as a styling inspiration, hence Serial 1. I would very much imagine that they’re having someone else build the components and wouldn’t be surprised if they are using some components from Bosch or whoever, because since when is sourcing components from reputable and established suppliers a bad thing?

I guess I see this less as Harley introducing a competitive e-bike to compete in the growing segment and more as Harley branching out from their same old same old mentality of heavy classically styled air cooled cruisers. That’s what’s I’m interested in. 

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > Pickup_man 10/29/2020 at 17:09

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I suppose I’d prefer Harley to work on their electric motorcycle range and develop a series of smaller motorbikes and scooters. And, i f they want to go with pedelec bikes, then I’d prefer it if they’d innovate rather than follow as they have with Serial 1.

Pickup_man > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media 10/29/2020 at 17:22

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Can’t really argue with that, I would love to see them make that little scooter concept they showed a while back. I think that’s how they really get a foothold in the electric market.